The interview as a video
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Preserving the Legacy of Danish Design Classics
The Wishbone Chair, created by Hans J. Wegner, holds a significant place among Danish design classics. Its timeless elegance and exceptional craftsmanship have made it an icon in the furniture world. However, replicas of these beloved pieces have flooded the market, diluting the essence and integrity of the original designs.
Why Opting for the Original Matters
Knud Erik Hansen emphasizes the importance of choosing the original Wishbone Chair over replicas. The original piece carries the legacy of Hans J. Wegner and embodies his meticulous attention to detail, superior craftsmanship, and the use of high-quality materials. By investing in the original, one not only acquires a piece of timeless design but also supports the heritage and craftsmanship of Danish furniture makers. The use of premium materials and traditional manufacturing techniques ensures that the original chair will stand the test of time, becoming an heirloom piece for generations to come.
Replicas and their Shortcomings
In contrast, replicas often fall short in terms of quality and craftsmanship. They are mass-produced using subpar materials and techniques, compromising the longevity and aesthetic appeal of the design. Replicas lack the soul and authenticity that define the original piece, diminishing the overall experience of owning a true Danish design classic.
Preserving the Integrity of Design
Knud Erik Hansen emphasizes the importance of preserving the integrity of design by choosing the original over replicas. By supporting the original creators and manufacturers, we contribute to the sustainability and longevity of the design industry. It is a conscious decision to honor the legacy of Danish design and the values it represents.
In conclusion, opting for the original Wishbone Chair, designed by Hans J. Wegner and produced by Carl Hansen & Søn, is essential. By choosing the original over replicas, we celebrate the heritage of Danish design, support the craftsmanship of skilled artisans, and ensure the longevity and authenticity of these timeless pieces.
Summary of the interview:
It is about quality, perfection, not making compromises with the product, respecting the material, taking responsibility for the company, jobs, people, and the environment.
Knud Erik Hansen, the CEO of Carl Hansen & Søn, expressed concern about the prevalence of replicas in Danish homes, stating that replicas are stolen products. He emphasized the importance of quality and craftsmanship in original Danish design and noted that there is a growing market for high-quality, long-lasting items. Hansen also highlighted the cultural significance of Danish design and the respect for both the materials used and the people who work in the Danish factory. He acknowledged that replicas of their products are extensively copied worldwide, with the wishbone chair being the most copied. Hansen urged consumers to buy from reputable sources and emphasized that genuine products have labels and distinct quality differences compared to fakes. He also discussed the impact of e-commerce and the need for vigilance in online purchases. He reiterated that buying original Danish design is a worthwhile investment due to its superior quality and longevity. Read here the full interview.
Interview with Knud Erik Hansen, CEO Carl Hansen & Søn
Do you know about the survey that states one out of ten Danes have replicas at home, and they expect this number to increase to 19% in the future? What do you think about it?
Knud Erik Hansen: Well, it is sad, of course, because replicas are stolen products. There are architects who have dedicated their lives, and many of them spend a significant amount of time developing their ideas, bringing things together, and learning. Then they design a piece of furniture or something similar, and someone simply copies it. It can take years to create something that is finished and exactly as they envisioned. However, it is disheartening to see it being stolen and mass-produced with poor quality. Unfortunately, this happens in many parts of the world. I believe that many of these copy factories are much larger than us and are likely supported by local governments in their respective areas. They benefit from foreign capital, which makes everything seem acceptable. It’s challenging for us. However, there are factors that can change this problem. More and more people are becoming conscious of quality. They consider the materials used to produce a piece of furniture, such as wood. The wood may have been growing in a forest for 100 or even 200 years, and it should be crafted into something lasting. Wasting a lot of wood and raw materials on something that falls apart after a few years, with inherent weaknesses, is not ideal. These days, young people and individuals with a sense of decency understand this and want to purchase high-quality, long-lasting items. So, there is a shift in the market, which we can feel. Interestingly, in China itself, there is a growing demand for real, high-quality products. Chinese consumers have worked hard to earn their money and now want to furnish their homes with genuine items. They do not want cheap, disposable products, which would indicate that they cannot afford the real thing. While the originals may be more expensive, they are made differently. A great deal of research and effort goes into producing them, and they offer the best quality. This creates a significant distinction, where we compete on quality while others compete on price. Therefore, more people now value quality. The environment is also a factor. Many young people and others are increasingly mindful of the environment when making purchases. They want to see that what they buy will last. Ideally, they would like their children to fight over these items when they are no longer around. Classical, timeless pieces of furniture hold a special appeal. They never go out of fashion. This is fantastic. So, overall, I am still optimistic. There is a market for us, and it is a growing one. This is very positive for our industry.
Danish design is part of the Danish DNA. Some may question why they should pay a lot of money for furniture just because certain brands have the rights to it. What are your thoughts on this cultural aspect?
Knud Erik Hansen: I believe you pay very little for the rights. The cost of the rights is not the expensive part. You pay a royalty to the architects, but that is not a significant portion. The main costs lie in the raw materials, labor, machinery, distribution, and other investments. The craftsmanship, attention to quality, and the entirely different approach to manufacturing make the difference. It’s like buying a nice German car compared to something from a different place. The German car has been thoroughly tested, every component is perfect, and the quality is of the highest standard. The same applies to furniture. When you buy a chair from our factory, it is entirely made of wood, without any plastic or artificial materials. If there is any metal, it is stainless steel. There is no chrome or other artificial substances that harm the environment. After we finish making our products, any leftover biomaterials are reused. Offcuts are used for small ornaments that we sell in our flagship stores worldwide. What remains is burned and used to heat our factory and 470 houses in the surrounding area, providing cheap and efficient heating throughout the year. Nothing is wasted. This demonstrates our respect for the materials we use, our responsibility towards the architects, the products, the raw materials, and the public. When you buy furniture like ours, you are considering all these factors. It’s not expensive when you compare it to a fake that will only last for a limited time. Our chairs, for example, can last for hundreds of years. I have seen chairs that my father sold in 1958 in the local hospital’s lobby, and they are still there with the original leather, with approximately 100 people sitting in them every day. It’s incredibly cost-effective if you consider the annual cost from 1958 until today. So, it’s not an expensive investment.
Is it also respect for the people who work here in Denmark in the factory because you are producing here in Denmark? Wouldn’t it be easy for you to move the factory to Asia?
Knud Erik Hansen: It would be very easy for me to move the factory to Asia, and I would be joining the rest of the team. People here in Denmark have been doing excellent work since the Viking Age or even before. We have developed skills in making things out of wood. In many other countries, you have abundant raw materials like iron and oil, but we have none. We have nothing except chalk, which isn’t very useful. However, we have our brains, our hands, and the expertise to produce things, such as wooden furniture. We are experts in this field and by far the best in the world. We are like Swiss watchmakers, but instead, we make furniture. I love this skill, and I made the decision to manufacture my furniture in Denmark. It could easily be made in the Far East. In fact, I have lived in the Far East for 22 years.
I have nothing against the Far East. I have nothing against the energy and other aspects you find there. However, when it comes to furniture craftsmanship, we are far superior. I can go home every night with a clear conscience knowing that I produce fantastic furniture. Many people worldwide love to buy our products and consider the quality something they truly want. That is enough for me, and that’s why I continue to make furniture in Denmark. Currently, we have 680 people employed in this factory. By the way, I also have a factory in Vietnam, so I’m not solely focused on Denmark. In Vietnam, we produce outdoor furniture made of teak, which is better for the environment since we have access to the wood there, and we ship the finished products worldwide. So, we operate in both locations.
Your products have also been copied extensively worldwide. Do you have an idea which product is the most copied?
Knud Erik Hansen: Yes, of course. It must be the wishbone chair. It’s our best-selling product, and we have been producing it since 1950. It continues to grow in popularity. But in reality, most of what we produce is being copied. The wishbone chair, however, is the most copied among them. It can be very frustrating, but there are different people buying the copies, and I can’t stop it due to limited resources.
Do you have an idea of how many copies are out there?
Knud Erik Hansen: Probably more than what I produce. Much more. There are numerous people at the bottom of the pyramid who want to buy these products. They might appreciate good design but end up purchasing the wrong items. Instead of saving a little more money and buying the genuine products, they opt for the copies, even though the price difference is not significant.
What is the difference between a fake chair and your original chair? Do you have an idea?
Knud Erik Hansen: There are so many differences. A fake chair is usually made as a compromise. The manufacturers of fakes compete on price and fiercely among themselves. In contrast, we compete purely on quality. It’s like comparing a Swiss watch to one made in China. There’s a vast difference. The Chinese watch might last a couple of years before being discarded, while a Rolex will last for generations and appreciate in value. The same applies to our furniture. If you buy a 40-year-old wishbone chair at an auction in the United States, you would pay more than for a brand new one made today. People believe that the older chairs are more original, although they are not. I appreciate that they increase in value. So, in 40 years, what I produce today will be sold at a higher value, and they will be just as good as our current products. We have even started buying second-hand furniture, refurbishing it, making new seats, and selling it again. There’s nothing wrong with it, so why waste it? If people want to get rid of it, they can sell it back to us, and we’ll refurbish and sell it again. We don’t hide the fact that it’s second hand, but it’s just as good as buying a new one.
But what is the difference? Isn’t a chair made of wood? Wood is wood, isn’t it?
Knud Erik Hansen: Well, that’s not entirely accurate. I mean, there’s a significant difference. It’s a whole process of construction, making, and drying the wood. When we make an oak chair, for example, we dry the wood for over a year. It costs a lot of money. We carefully select the best pieces, ensuring there are no defects or faults in the wood. Any cut-offs or leftover pieces are used for other purposes, such as ornaments or heating. But the final product that comes out of this factory is perfect. I can guarantee you that. That’s not the case when you’re competing on price, as everything counts and there is no time to make it as perfect as possible. The focus becomes making it as cheap as possible, and that’s the difference.
When it comes to the perspective of an end customer, how can I determine if my product is original or fake?
Knud Erik Hansen: Most likely, the fake won’t have a label. The authentic product will always have a label with our name on it. Additionally, there is a small number on the label that might not hold much meaning for you, but we can see that it was made here. If you put an original and a copy side by side, you can easily see the difference. There are compromises made in the copies, whereas we go through a lot of effort to make things absolutely perfect as the architect designed them. Wagner never compromised in any way. When you have to produce something at a cheap price, you have to compromise, and that can be immediately noticeable. But it’s challenging for me to explain it here. If you place two chairs, an original and a copy, next to each other, you’ll be able to see it. You’ll also be able to lift them and feel the difference because the copies are most likely made from cheap wood, while we use proper oak, beech, Danish wood, or American walnut. It’s a product that is perfect. There are many different ways to look at it, but my recommendation is to buy from a reputable place. If you go to the labor market, there’s a big chance you’ll get something that is not original. In Denmark, it’s not too bad because it’s our home market, but if you go to a foreign labor market, you’ll see there are fakes there. So if you want to be sure you’re getting the real stuff, buy it from a decent shop that has authorization and can show they are buying directly from Carl Hansen.
And if I see a chair from you on the internet for €100, what are the chances that it’s fake?
Knud Erik Hansen: It’s 100% fake! That’s how it is. You can’t get it.
What are you doing against these replicas? Can you do anything?
Knud Erik Hansen: Well, here in Europe, a lot has been done. European manufacturers are making efforts to protect themselves as best as possible. We join together as a society, whether you’re making records, art, furniture, or anything else. We all unite and fight against the copies. Laws have been passed in the EU that protect the originals, making it illegal to bring fakes into Europe. It is also difficult because customs authorities are aware of these copies entering. It is theft since they steal the design, which is protected by law, and we pay for that protection as intellectual property that deserves respect. So in Europe, it is quite organized now, but in the rest of the world, it is not. It’s completely impossible for us to stop it, and we are not big enough to do so.
You mentioned the Danish Rights Alliance, where you are a part of all Danish design brands. Is there someone working there who googles for fakes and then writes an email?
Knud Erik Hansen: There are lawyers who do that. Yes, they do. We provide them with tips, and we also pay for their services. However, we cannot withstand the strong pressure that comes from all over. I believe it’s the same for everyone. There are fake Rolexes, and Rolex is well aware of that. They are sold in markets in Hong Kong, New York, and all over the world, but they are not genuine Rolexes. We all know that. When people want a Rolex, they go to a reputable shop to buy it. The same goes for furniture.
But how do you reconcile this with the trend that e-commerce is becoming increasingly important? Because on the internet, I can’t see the product.
Knud Erik Hansen: That’s a challenge you face. If you buy from a legitimate shop that usually sells the original products, you can also find them online. But if you buy from someone you don’t know, you’re taking a chance, and most likely, it won’t be an original, and you’ll be paying too much. We see that time after time. For example, in the United States, if you hire an architect to decorate your home, it can be fantastic and beautiful. But if the architect is dishonest and buys a fake while charging you the full price, that’s dishonesty, and they should be held accountable. However, it’s up to the people engaging these architects to ensure they are getting the right stuff and that the quality is there. The best thing to do is to turn a piece of furniture around and look at it from underneath. You can immediately see if it’s a compromise. It will look terrible.
I mean, this is bad for your reputation and bad for the money at the end of the year. But is it perhaps a small honor when your products are copied?
Knud Erik Hansen: Definitely not. It’s not an honor to glorify a thief. No, I would never do that.
Okay, but what about people who can’t afford it but still wish to have Danish design at home? What would you recommend to them? Or is there a plan to make your products more affordable?
Knud Erik Hansen: It is affordable. If you look at our accounts and see what is left after we’ve paid everything, it’s not fantastic. No, we don’t do it to get rich. If you were looking to become wealthy, I didn’t do it here. I aim to make the best product, the highest quality, and satisfy the market that appreciates our commitment to the environment and our dedication to creating a clean product. If people think about that and are willing to pay a small premium for it, then that’s good. But if you look at my accounts, which are public, you can see what we make. It’s not a lot of money. I think people in the Far East would laugh at us if they knew what we were making and how much effort we put into creating these things. But I love it. It’s not about getting rich quickly. It’s about being one of those who produce the best, and that is personally satisfying for me.
But what about people who just want to spend 100 or 150 Euros on one chair? Would you say they should buy a replica or another cheaper design chair?
Knud Erik Hansen: Well, if you take a company like Ikea, I don’t mind them. I think they waste a lot of raw materials and so on, so it’s not environmentally ideal. But many young people can’t afford to buy a Carl Hansen and Søn chair, and they would buy a cheaper chair until they can afford the real thing. Their ambition and desire to own our furniture is there, and they learn how to put colors together and match them with curtains, which is perfect. Absolutely perfect. But when they get a little older and have moved a couple of times, and their cheap furniture starts falling apart, as it will, they throw it out and then go buy the real stuff because they can afford it. And there isn’t much of a difference. If you consider the lifespan of the product, it’s expensive to buy cheap.
So you would say sustainability and the product’s life cycle are increasingly important for more and more people?
Knud Erik Hansen: It’s more important for people who understand what we need for the future and for our children. They should buy something that will last. The premium for quality isn’t exorbitant. In Denmark, there are also manufacturers that are very, very expensive, and I don’t appreciate that. They may last, but I don’t see the reason for their high prices. However, they may produce much less volume and cater to a niche market, which is okay. But they are indeed very expensive. I fully agree with that. On the other hand, we have 680 people working here. It’s not mass production, but we have enough people to ensure that we maintain the quality that even matches the niche products. Our furniture is sent out worldwide, which makes it affordable and obtainable. These two factors are very important.
Do you think there’s a change happening right now?
Knud Erik Hansen: Yes, there is. There’s a significant change. People are becoming much more conscious of the environment, and I fully appreciate that. We are working towards making our products as good as possible with the technology available today.
